Virginia Freedom Riders :: Freedom Forums

Boil · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Summit Meeting Minutes

The Virginia Motorcyclists Summit took place on Saturday, September 13, 2008 beginning at 1:00PM at the Holiday Inn Crossroads in Richmond, VA.

The meeting opened with a floor discussion of motorcycle issues wishing to be addressed:

Rich Mansfield: Concern about being able to get a law on the books increasing the penalty for pulling out in front of a motorcycle resulting in an accident. Need to catch drivers’ attention and create an effort on their part to look out more for motorcycles. Penny Adams added that we would be most successful when raising this issue if we strayed away from “motorcycle language” and included other/all traffic groups. Also, concerns that there is an enforcement problem with turn signals - other drivers are turning in front of you but they are not telling you they are going to do it.

Concern about when making the trip from Northern Virginia to Virginia Beach how entirely different the system is set up with regards to highway markings and repairs.

Bubblehead US Military Vets: Red light sensors –giving riders the freedom to move on without subject to being ticketed, laws permit m/c to proceed through red light under certain conditions.

Pam Jewell: Cell phones – do not think you should be able to talk on while driving or usage of hand-held.

EZpass- should be to receive a discount while making process easier for motorcyclists.

Matt Danielson: Allowing modulating brake lights, currently not legal, + other lights + blue dots.

GW Peterson: Helmet law that allows for adult choice.

Bruce Biondo: Licensing definition for scooters and scooter license and possibly a 3 wheel license, there should be 3 different classes of licenses. Chris Hooper added that as gasoline costs continue to rise there are more people riding scooters, hence as the pool grows problems for motorcyclists/classifications continue to multiply.

Charlie Finley: Transportation authority through General Assembly. Would affect motorcyclists as they would be referred to as vehicles leaving all new taxes to be applied to motorcyclists such as 5% taxes on repairs and services (you go to get oil change, new wheels, etc. you will pay an extra 5%). Need to make the case that motorcycles should not be applicable. This would also mean an additional $10 on registrations.

Steve Willis: State law prohibiting municipalities requiring m/c to park parallel, Alexandria and parking garages (if public can’t keep you out) a private one is private. Also, allowing more than one m/c per meter. Can visit municode.com to view every single municipality ordinance, every locality has to allow at least 2 motorcycles in a space. Another issue is that VCU will not let scooters occupy in one of their parking decks.

After the above discussion voted to discuss more in-depth what was deemed to be the most important of the issues. These are issues which have the potential to be brought to the GA in the upcoming session.
-In no particular order-

ROW VIOLATIONS FOR ALL TRAFFIC:
Should apply not just to vehicles but also pedestrians, important to contact other groups and get them involved e.g. Richmond area bikers association. McDougal SB 115 doesn’t single out any particular type of vehicle, if you run red light and it is the sole probable cause of death of another then automatic class 1 Misdemeanor.
Question of how much more difficult it is and why you have to move from the concept of if you kill someone to having caused a serious injury…9 months laid up…why do you have to get killed? Generally we have found in the GA the more words you put in the legislation the harder it becomes to pass. Need to begin by submitting the legislation in simple form and tweak down the road. Not all legislators are educated in the code and when you give the legislators more language (causing permanent significant physical impairment, aggravated malicious wounding) you give them more things to argue about and the less likely your bill is to see the light of day.
There is general agreement that the ROW violation should not be m/c specific. As the law stands it makes it seem as though the violation is nothing worse than jay-walking. In order to prove reckless driving must prove that the action was not merely negligent but that it was also a callous disregard to life, liberty and property. If a person is rushing home and runs stop sign/stop light – reckless – but if same person makes a left hand turn in front of someone – negligence only -. Furthermore, even though there are those being charged with reckless they may not get convicted of so. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what the cop writes it matters what the judge convicts. Question arose that the charge should be made into a felony; however, given that we are having a hard enough time making it reckless don’t even want think about what it would be like addressing the issue as a felony (basically no way in hell it will pass).
Need to get this legislation in good form and realize the fact that phone calls are more personal than emails and the more personal the more impact there will be. Rich Mansfield added that your delegates need to continuously hear from you so they know what is important to you not just what is important to you on one particular day.

RIDING 2 ABREAST
Ralph Davis - bill was defeated in 9-9 vote by Transportation committee noting delegate John Cosgrove continuously crusades against the bill every time it shows up. Could attempt to reduce to traffic offense (currently carries penalty of $2,500 fine and up to 12 months in jail) but ultimate goal is to get rid of altogether.
Nuke – where is the intent of considering this reckless driving? What special training do motor officers go through making them exempt that we already don’t go through or what more could we do? Was unaware of anyone being ticketed for it but the law seems as though its purpose is to harass a particular group of motorcyclists who happen to be riding 2 abreast at night. Is it really such a bad thing that two should be able to ride abreast? Doesn’t riding abreast make us (motorcyclists) more visible to others as we could very easily be mistaken for a vehicle? Currently legal in 48 other states, only Virginia and Vermont say it is illegal.

HIGHWAY REPAIRS AND MARKINGS
Have very strict standards and guidelines, non-skid on ones in NOVA and in Virginia Beach they are slick…repairs cheaper, how much does sand cost?...markings very expensive  VDOT control issue…not following specifications, if this wrong then need to petition VDOT. Chesapeake roads and VA beach roads. Bernie – representative from VDOT on counsel, anytime the issue is raised they are very responsive in talking to district engineers. Need to specifically address where it is a problem. There was an incident in Richmond and within 24 hours it was resolved, potholes same thing. If we are really concerned about this then we are asking them to put more money in but are crossing our own line as we are also fighting to reduce tolls  talking out of both sides of our mouth. Communicate with your resident engineer.

CELL PHONES
Concern with distracted driving…very reluctant to limit to just cell phones. How many cases where people were injured in any way? Already have laws on the books that address your type of behavior in a car.
Rather than pushing issue...if it comes up just tag onto it. Why worry about cell phones, more important issues such as running stop signs or stop, light right-of-way violations…PSA’s for education.

TOLLS
Clearly do not see any delegate trying to get re-elected by eliminating fees for motorcyclists. In England there was a massive demonstration where motorcyclists tied up toll road completely so that traffic couldn’t move but if this were to ever happen in Northern Virginia you would probably get shot at. Bernie Adams – need to have people counting motorcyclists at toll booths to prove what kind of fiscal impact there really is. Were able to get a motorcycle reduction on Coleman Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel privately operated but may receive federal funds. Recently, larger cities have been coming up with ideas of congestion fees. It seems as though can make a good enough case for them to exempt fees for motorcyclists and scooters by being allowed to ride two abreast and thus reduce traffic. Overall, a toll booth very dangerous place, they will sell you a smart tag for your motorcycle but there is to guarantee it will work. If we are going to pursue this issue further the best way to go about is to reduce tolls for motorcycles or receive a general discount of 10, 15 or 20%. Could potentially set aside a specific toll area designated for motorcycles but an actual previous price tag of such was $4 million The biggest issue is transportation funding. The idea of exempting motorcyclists from having to pay the tolls during certain hours will die upon arrival. Nothing is going to be supposed that takes funding away.

MODULATING BRAKE LIGHTS/OTHER LIGHTS/BLUE DOT LIGHTS
Illegal because they are not included in the law except for blue dots. Seems as though anything that makes us more seen the better. People are not necessarily getting stopped for them instead what is happening is when you go to get your motorcycle inspected you are being told that your motorcycle will not pass due to these modulating lights and thus your motorcycle will not pass inspection until they are removed. This is causing motorcyclists to remove them and then return. Only purpose these lights serve is that they make you better seen when you are stopping; however, have been told that they are a distraction. Military Vets- rolling down the road going above the speed limit, see bike behind with modulating headlight…headlight modulating currently allowed in the law but a modulating brake light is going to catch your attention so that you see it. Bottom line, there is no difference between a modulating headlight and pumping your brake lights which is what the DMV handbook tells you to do.
Rich Mansfield: Modulating brake light allows him to feel very comfortable at night while riding as it assures he will be seen. Overall, the law that colors these lights illegal does not make sense and should be struck down. Question as to whether the law could be amended to that of the modulating head light by adding language to brake lights, would be easy to write. VDOT already puts strobes on red lights at intersections it wants you to stop at; however, Virginia law not willing to change until federal law willing to change. BMWBMW club - federal motor vehicle setting standard specifically allows modulating head lights but when talked to VSP their position is that Virginia follows the Fed standard and only Fed standard you cannot add any extra lights. If add to VA standard it will be in violation to Fed standard. NITSA makes the distinction between modulating lights and supplemental lights. As long as the law meets a federal standard we can add things to it but it just cannot be less than the federal requirement. Have seen these modulating lights on Mercedes and BMW’s so the issue should be if it is legal in a car then it should also be for a motorcycle. Decided to defer other light issues until later and push the modulating brake light through. Think we have a good shot at as GA should be looking for way to make safer. No real good argument against these modulating brake lights except that the VSP say it resembles an emergency flasher. Important to remember that just because they are against doesn’t mean they can’t get it through.

HELMETS
Should be adult choice 21 and above.
Chris Hooper – impression that the bill has lost credibility…present every year and always voted against. If there is a helmet bill being heard the GA, will have white coats bolstering and organizing against particularly doctors and insurance companies. No unapproved helmet in the Commonwealth of VA. Does it matter at all the makeup of the legislature…new people being voted in? Newly elected people you don’t know where they stand, same goes for people in the Senate. Progress is not going to happen overnight…need to educate delegates and senators…no statistics and no one has proved there are any more or less fatalities…helmet law being forced on us by the federal government. Currently have 30 states allowing for choice and 20 that do not. All states that have been successful have come back every year they won’t give up. If you have the support of enough people in the state you can make progress. The government doesn’t have the right to tell us what to do as they should not be able to legislate for our safety.
Legislative body tired of us being there for this bill, they are being hit by other people all year (insurance, medical, etc). It would be much smarter to approach in way where we absolutely know we can rally troops working throughout the year to get the support we need. Perhaps we should give this bill a break, regroup and approach differently. Put in Senate instead of the House? Overall attitude is here they come again, becomes impeding to other bills we are pushing.
We sometimes forget about all of the things we HAVE been able to accomplish. Motorcyclists in VA have done a great job and maybe this time around we need to give the helmet bill a rest. Still have the same senators and delegates as last year…helmet bill will DOA until there is change. Need to get more people involved, our efforts will only change with greater numbers. For now we should continue on with other issues with greater importance. Perception issue among legislators…here comes the helmet guy again. Need to join in with other people such as bicycle riding organizations. It is not what is in it for us as motorcyclists but also for other cornered organizations/people. WHY NOT include another image in presenting bill?

SCOOTER
Broad definition: step-through frame, automatic transmission, above 50 cc’s, skateboard w/ handlebars, 2 wheels, less than 250 pounds in weight, tire diameter less than 12’. Bottom line is that they are being lumped in with motorcycles thus we need to think about exactly what a scooter is. When crash facts are published they should not be getting lumped in with our numbers.
Mil Vets – people think they are the greatest thing because of gas advantage…buy helmet & get their license. By completing the DMV test they can ride the ultra when they have absolutely no business being on there…need to impose different classifications…same problem with 3 wheelers, they do not handle nor ride the same as motorcycles. Need class/license difference…ST or S,T and M. Our goal should be to keep them out of the motorcycle classification.

- voted on order of issues by importance -

1. ROW VIOLATIONS
2. RIDING 2 ABREAST
3. MODULATING LIGHTS

*PUSH HELMET LAW ASIDE

ABATE HAS AGREED THAT THEY WILL STILL SUBMIT A HELMET BILL – REGARDLESS OF SUPPORT – LET THEM DO IT THEIR WAY – THEY WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR RESPECT IN THEM DOING SO
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Jim Cannon, Director
Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists